Debating :)

Romans 5:12-21

  ¹² Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—

  

¹³ To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law.  

¹⁴ Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.

 ¹⁵ But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!  

¹⁶ Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.  

¹⁷ For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!

¹⁸ Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.  

¹⁹ For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

 ²⁰ The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 

²¹ so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. 

I've been reading through Romans for quite some time now, and I learn something new every time I read a chapter. Now you have to understand, since I am only in chapter 5, I read the same chapters over and over again. And yes, I struggle to read my Bible consistently just like everyone else out there. I usually fall asleep when I read things, so that's part of the reason. But that is no excuse nonetheless.

So when I turned to Romans 5 a few days ago, I realized that I had memorized many of the beginning verses from AWANA. When I read something that is already in my brain, I tend to not pay as much attention to it. Even though those verses often come back to me during the day and I am able to apply them.

In verse 15, it says "But the gift [salvation through grace] is not like the trespass." I take this to mean that since vs. 12 says "Death came upon ALL people, so ALL have sinned," that the gift does not go to ALL people. And that is clearly obvious in this world, because we all know people who are on their way to hell, or have gone to hell. The gift is not like the sin passing upon all men. The gift is given to "The Many." Now there are two different parts of "The Many" in verse 15. There are "the many" who died because of their sin and there are "the many" who were granted eternal life.

I've been debating the issue of predestination with a friend of mine for a while now. I believe that from the scripture we know for a fact that God knows everything. But does He know everything, and plan everything? I don't see how He cannot. But God has nothing to do with sin, so I think He presents us with the choice to sin or not and leaves that up to us. And this makes sense to me because how else did Adam and Eve sin? I have a hard time believing God would have planned someone to sin because He Himself is sinless. So I think we have the choice to sin or not. However, you cannot convince someone of the fact that they were chosen and they didn't have a choice to be saved or not because then they argue back, like he did, that no one else in the world has a chance. Yes, that's true. But we don't know who is chosen or not. We can only be accountable for ourselves. And we are commanded to spread the gospel.

Then he argued, how can we even tell someone about Christ if they are not chosen? But it's not up to us to decide that. People will reject the truth either way, if you believe in predestination or not. And once again, we cannot know who are the elect of God. We can only judge that for ourselves.

The issue of free will is also another thing we like to discuss. And I have also debated this with another friend of mine as well. She believes that if we have no free will, and that if God planned out our actions, then we are just a programmed robot and as she said "I don't think God would do that. That is very unloving." Well the more I learn about God, the more I find how He is NOT ALL ABOUT LOVE. We just like to think He is because that's what gets people attracted to Him. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that God is not loving, because if he wasn't then there would be no hope for us. But God is also a just God, and He is jealous for his people. He gets angry when we sin.

"One righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people." I was talking to ANOTHER friend the other day who I met in my portrait photography class. He saw my shirt from the creation museum and started asking me questions about what I believe in and such. It turns out he is a Christian, and before he came to WCCC he actually went to Bible college. I found that incredibly interesting and I asked him why he was coming to WCCC for photography when he already had a bachelors degree in computer networking and theology. His answer was a bit strange, and later on that night on facebook, he told me his story. But anyways, we talked about church and things like that, and the issue of being a calvinist came up. He told me that he agreed with all the points but one: Limited Atonement. Which is the belief that Christ only died for those who would eventually be saved, and not for the whole world. So we talked about that and he tried to defend why he thought that was wrong, and I tried to share why I thought it was correct. In the end, he made a pause in the chat line and said "Ellen, I'm terribly sorry for doing this to you. But I was playing the devils advocate there. I do believe in limited atonement and I was just testing you because I believe we should always be ready to give an answer for the things we believe." I was in shock. But I was happy at the same time. It was good that he did that to me. He was making me think about what I really believe.

In the end, I am always glad to debate things, because it makes me stronger in my faith and it helps me to see where other people are coming from. AND it makes me want to read my Bible more. I want to know what I believe, not what I've been taught to believe. And that's the best way to find out!